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Land People Exile Yeh Shihtao v.s. Gao Xingjian /土地 人民 流亡─葉石濤 高行健 文學對話
 Land People Exile Yeh Shihtao v.s. Gao Xingjian /土地 人民 流亡─葉石濤 高行健 文學對話

During his "Taiwanese Cultural Tour," Gao Xingjian, the 2000 Nobel Laureate in Literature, met and talked with Taiwanese writer Yeh Shihtao. Gao was forced into exile in France for the freedom of speech due to the Cultural Revolution, while Yeh, who has survived the White Terror regime in Taiwan, opted to embrace his motherland. Following is an excerpt of their dialogue.

 Literary testimony
 Gao: I can't agree more with Mr. Yeh that a writer is an observer who puts down faithfully the vicissitudes of life. Literature is testimonies that transcend human existence.

 Freedom and Humanity
 Yeh: I've read One Man's Bible and Soul Mountain. Mr. Gao's writing about the Cultural Revolution appeals to me. Though I was unable to exile like Mr. Gao did, I know we were both in search of freedom and humanity.

 Exile is my rebirth
 Gao: My major works were completed after I went into exile. I was reborn from the exile.
During exile, I had been able to finish things that would have taken me three lives in China.
 It's suicidal for exile writers to indulge in memories and nostalgia. For their exile to be meaningful, they should get involved in local cultural creation.

 Two inspiring playwrights
 Gao: Brecht and Artaud have had great influence on my writing. They both like and were inspired by oriental plays, so I was prompted to ponder over what inspiration I could get from oriental plays too.

 China in my heart
 Gao: I'm proud of my exile identity. I admitted in writing my identity as a political refugee. China has abundant heritage and culture. If you ask me where China is? I always answer: "China is in my heart; China is me."

 Never lose the ability to observe
 Yeh: Writers dislike politics. Though writers can never be immune to politics, they should never get involved. Otherwise, they'll lose the ability to observe objectively.
 Gao: I concur with you. Writers should maintain independent thinking.

 Human concerns behind writing
 Gao: I think literature transcends time and individuals. I write my thoughts freely. And I don't pursue the kind of literature loaded with numerous purposes. There should be life experiences behind each creation.

 The story of my people
 Yeh: I have studied Taiwan's Siraya aboriginals for more than ten years. And I traced down my ancestral root back to the Longchi Township where the Kuling Lake was once a Siraya village. So when I write about Siraya, I actually write about my people.


⊙資料提供:文學台灣基金會 ⊙紀錄整理:徐碧霞 ⊙摘要:本刊編輯部

  高行健先生在今年十月初接受文建會邀請來台展開「台灣文化之旅」,在南部地區有一場與台灣文學作家葉石濤先生對談。前者是大陸文革時代的受害者,而後者則是台灣白色恐怖政治的受害者。高先生為了能發出自己的聲音而選擇逃亡到法國;葉先生則選擇擁抱自己的土地。兩位從不同的地方交迸出火花。限於篇幅,特摘要整理如下:

 文學的見證
  高:葉先生說一個作家是一個觀察者,我非常贊同這個觀點,文學就是把人生百態如實道來。文學留下的是超越人類生存的見證。

 自由與人道
  葉:我讀了高先生的「一個人的聖經」和「靈山」。他寫「文化大革命」吸引了我。高先生身受文化大革命的折磨,最後不得不流亡。台灣也有「白色恐怖」,當時台灣人民真的痛不欲生。但是在那個時代我沒辦法流亡啊!我知道高先生所要追求的東西跟我一樣,即自由和人道。

 流亡是我的新生,是我的再生
  高:我主要的作品,基本上是流亡以後寫的。「靈山」在中國大陸開始寫的,完成於法國。當時我不是逃亡的狀態,而是得到德國和法國的邀請,以作家訪問之名前往。之後發生「天安門事件」,我就不回去了。流亡是我的新生,是我的再生。流亡十多年完成的事情,可能是我在中國三輩子也無法完成的。我覺得一個流亡作家,如果沉浸在回憶和鄉愁中,也是一種慢性自殺。必須投入當地的文化創作中,否則流亡是沒有意義的。

 兩位啟發我的戲劇家
  高:我的創作受兩位戲劇家影響,一個是Brecht(布萊希特),一個是Artaud(阿陶德)。他們都欣賞東方的戲劇。既然他們兩個都從東方戲劇得到啟發,而我對東方戲劇的觀察應該比他們更加深入,我便思考著從東方傳統戲劇中可以抽離什麼樣新的種子。

 中國,在我身上
  高:我欣然認可我的政治流亡身份,對我而言是一種驕傲。我甚至在文章公開承認我就是政治難民,之後我選擇了法國籍,我可能還是個世界公民。(中國)背後有許多豐富的遺產、文化都在我的血液中。如果要問中國在哪裡?我經常套用波蘭流亡作家的一句話:「中國就在我身上,我就是中國。」

 別失去冷眼的觀察力量
  葉:我們作家非常討厭政治,政治和我們的創作(內容)沒有什麼關係,但是不可能不受政治影響。我認為作家絕對不能介入政治,政治是生活的一部分,我們也應該了解,但絕對不能介入。若陷進政治舞台,就會失去作家冷眼的觀察力量。

  高:我完全贊同葉老的觀點,當然作家還是會有政治態度,但作家要有獨立的思考,和一個獨立、寬敞的空間。人類需要作家、藝術家,超越利害觀察事物,給我們審美的感受。
作品的背後應有人

  高:我寫作就是率性地寫。我想文學是超越了個人,超越了時代。我們需要的、受感動的是這樣的文學。我要的文學不是去載道、維護政治、社會主張,或是純粹的追隨唯美主義、形式主義,這種文學我想也不是葉老想要的。用很通俗的話說,作品的背後應有人,有人生的經歷。

 族人的故事
  葉:我唸台南一中時,很好奇什麼是西拉雅族?開始研究西拉雅族長達幾十年。我是葉家第八代子孫,是台南(府城)人。我的祖先原本住在關廟再往內走的龍崎鄉,那裡面有一個「苦苓湖」,經過考證,那是一個西拉雅族的聚落,我的祖先既從那裡來到府城,表示是西拉雅族的後裔,其實我就是寫我的族人的故事。